Generator/small engine maintenance
 

As fate had it I bought a new lawnmower today.

While scouring the web for any tips particular to this model (Toro Recycler) Some of these tips seemed pretty fanatical (they may have been talking commercial lawn equipment and not residential-use) but other things seem common.

I found a lot of people mentioning how they prep their lawn equipment for winter storage: first they run the fuel out of the carb and pull the spark plug. Then they dump a bit of oil into the cylinder, put the spark plug back in and then slowly rotate the engine by hand a couple turns. It will smoke a bit next time it is started up.

I can see how this would definitely help prevent the cylinder/rings from corroding, but do any of you guys do it with gens you occasionally test-run? I could see doing it once a year for the lawnmower (that I don't use between October and March) but I probably test-run my generator every three months, and that seems like a lot of screwing and unscrewing of the spark plug threads to me.

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Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I use fuel stabilizer all of the time. only on long runs, when refueling I do not use it.
When finished with a long run, put fuel stabilizer back in the tank.
Every time I test run my gen set when finished , turn the fuel off and let the engine run out of gas.

Done.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

You are a smart man to run your gen set every 3 to 4 months. That is all you need to do...nothing more.

Try not to put too much fuel in your machine....and if it has a fuel shut off....use it to keep the carb empty of old gasoline....just put in a little fresh furel every run and you will be good to go.

Any engin that will not start.....try to drain the fuel bowl if possible.....then pull the plug...squirt in about a half teaspoon of fresh gasoline (I use an old eye saline bottle) - replace the spark pulg and give it a few pulls.....you may have to do this a few times...but I have neve found an engine that will not start if you do this......unless it set with old gas in the carb for many years....then it is carb clean/overhaul time.....

Even if you can't drain the carb bowl.....it it get running on what you squirted in the cylinder....it may then run on the old gas...and if you mixed in a bit of fresh it will then restart easily.

Just keep running it every few months and you will be fine. I never use stabilizer.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I run my diesel genset every month for at least 15 minutes. Change the oil every 5 hours or so (storage time, that is once or twice a year)

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about fuel issues as much.

Changed the oil and did a test run for 15 minutes yesterday, noticed the cheap fuel hoses are already disintegrating. Now have to run to the parts store and get new fuel hoses.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

On this point I disagree .

It is better to keep the tank topped off at all times, the reason is , when the tank is full there is little or no air space in it.

If the tank is not full , unless the tank is sealed so no air can get in, (unlikely) as the air pressure goes up and down.(barometric)
The fuel tank will breath as the pressure changes.
Water condensation will form, and If you live in a hi humidity area, water will build up in the tank..

Just saying..


:biggrin:

Edit: This will apply to both gas and diesel systems.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

For a car in storage....big fuel tank....yes, keep it full as possible......but little fuel tanks = really no issue with condensation. There is an argument to try to minimize air space to minimize evaporation of the light end volitile distillates....that is what makes gasoline "go bad"...the volitle stuff evaporates away.....

If you have a full tank....you will just end up with a full tank of bad gas.....

The very best situation is to just run it out of fuel completely. That is why I say do not put too much in there to start with.....then run it every 3 -4 months and add just a bit of fresh fuel and run it for 30 minutes of so under load to again consume most/all the fuel....try to use the fuel shut off so when you go to run it again....you will be able to add fresh fuel prior to opening up the shut off....that way, mostly fresh fuel goes into the carb.

Do what you like....but I have 30 years of experience with dozens of small engines and this is the very best practice.....I probably have more small piston engines that any 10 people you know....and I never have an issue using this method.

Do not let them sit around full of gasoline....you will end up with stale gasoline over time. Guarantee.

There is very little risk of water build up from condensation.....I've had metal wing/fuel cell aircraft in hangers for the past 25 years and I've never experienced condenstaion in the tanks than have set partial full for many nonths and vented to atmosphere in SE Michigan. Every flight gets a preflight where you sump the wing tanks....never found water in 25 years of flying. I also have an above ground fuel tank....but I do seal it tight.....between use....so not condensation risk.

It is a good idea to top off metal tanks to minimize air space and risk of condensation.....but little engine tanks....try to run them dry or minimize fuel....

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

:coolbeer:

Looking at it at that angle I do agree..

:ok:

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

just run it regularily as others have said.

also i had/have a generator that i was running on some old stored fuel
for extended period and it started to fart and cough like a valve problem
i ran a bottle of octane boost through it and fixed it right up.

so now i keep a few bottles of octane boost as part of my engine preps spares

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I've added fuel shutoffs and inline filters to every small engine piece of equipment I own.....the really old equipment has tank screens/fuel line that will create debris whe they get old and I'm tired of cleaning carbs to get a piece of junk out of the needle/seat.

The best favor you can do yourself....keep your fuel clean in cans when pumping/filling.....just takes a spec of junk to get into the needle/seat.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

is this a typo tech guy? im a bit slack with my small engines
after run in they are lucky to get a change every 100 hours

but a change of oil every 5 hours isnt even a tank of gas

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Golddust - you are a nice guy - did not mean to come across too strong against you.....THANKS!!!! We are both correct!

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Add to that,,

What ever engine is used , run them so they come up to full operating temp.

and let it run for awhile , what I said in my post about water condensation goes for crankcases also..
Run long enough so any condensation is boiled off..

And every 5 hours ??

Methinks you are overdoing it..

IMO.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

For equipment I nearly never use.....I like to change once per year....sometimes I get lazy and it is every other year......

This is for things like my generator that only run every few months just to make sure they will run when I need them.

Oil changes are easy, fast and cheap on these small engines. So no big deal.

For some of my engines.....I've bent up a special little trough out of aluminum ...for where it is tough to get at the drain without making a mess.....just tip the machine a bit and use the aluminum trough to drain in to a pan....easy and clean.

The lawn mowing equipment gets a filter and oil change every 50 to 100 hours. They are used often and under heavy load.

Cars/trucks.....I target every 5000 miles and a good WIX filter every other oil change. All our cars get driven to death and never have oil consumption issues using this system.

BTW: best oil price I can find is Costco...was $20.50/case of Shell last year...then when up to $28/case (12 qts).....have not looked lately....bought 30 cases last year at $20.50. Good SHTF material - never goes bad....anything to get out of FRN's!!!!!

Sometimes Ace Hardward has a summer special.....on sale and mail rebate = $1/qt of Penzoil.....stock up to the limit of the sale at those times!!!

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Fantastic advice!!!!! This is a real probelm with short trip cars in the winter......see all the "exhaust" in the winter...it is water vapor....every gal of fuel burn produces 1 (or is it 2) gal of water...some of it get's past the rings and into the oil....get the temp up high for 30 min to 1 hr to burn it off.....if you can't run it long and hard to make temp....better off not running.

Lot's of guys start their aircraft on the ramp for 10 minutes in the winter.....worst thing they could do.......

We try to fly the planes at least once per month in winter for 1 hr to keep the oil circulated and DRY. All small planes have a crankcase breather .....and when you are done flying and put the plane away....tons of snotty water/oil drains out of these breathers onto the hanger floor.

You have to get the temp up to cook off the water in all combustion engines.

I've pulled aircraft rocker arm covers (sheet metal stampings) that are just packed full of rust from these foolish winter ramp runs.....

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I guess I wasn't clear on that.

5 hours max in storage conditions. That equates to once or twice a year for gensets. Since they only run 15-20 minutes per month, they need their oil changed every 5 hours or so.


Once you are running the genset for days or weeks, then once every 60-100 hours or so should do fine

People rarely do this, and I think this is a big reason for genset burnout.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I think it is also important for some of the magnetic items to keep the megnatic fields up to spec. I've not studied this too much...so take it as rumor...

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Long story, but I killed a genset through non-use from just that sort of thing, the motor ran, but the gen head produced no power. Called the manufacturer, and they stated that the coils needed to be re-energized and gave a process for doing so (didn't work), but they stated that this is common on gen sets that go for long periods un used.

That is part of the reason I run mine for 15 minutes a month. I always fire it up, flip the break on the unit, and plug in a 1500 watt halogen shop light to it.

It runs under this light load for the entire time. Helps make sure the AVR and the windings are operating properly. I look at the light to make sure there is little to no flicker (easy way to make sure the sine wave is sort of ok)

To be fair, I think this really applies to no AVR brush type gen heads, but it is good advice to run them once a month under light load regardless.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Anyone here have experiences with both gas and diesel generators? Which do you prefer and why? I've heard diesel offers higher output per gallon, and that it's lower maintenance. Of course, I've heard lots in favor of gas too, and see gas generators are much easier to come by. I'd appreciate the opinion of one that's tried both.

I intend to buy a very small generator, 1500 watts or so. It isn't much power, but it's all I need and the fuel will last longer. I've measured my sustained power consumption at about 750 watts at my highest consumption rate.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Diesel gensets run 1000 + for even the china gensets. They are VERY VERY loud. A true yanmar type diesel will run you 1600 +.

That said, they will run circles around a gas gen. Mine holds 4 gallons of diesel and will run for 9+ hours and cranks out 6000 watts. cannot beat that consumption rate.

I have a china diesel, yanmar clone. So far very good. I used the same model when Ike blew threw and our gas gen croaked. The borrowed china diesel was really beat up, had bounced around in a pickup for most of it's life, and had several hundred hours on it. Ran like a champ.

That said, the china diesels need care and feeding... I just noticed that the crappy fuel lines are already disintegrating. Will be heading to the parts store later today for more fuel lines.

Diesel is MUCH easier to store than gas. I keep 100+ gallons around with NO fear of explosion or the fuel going bad.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Another thought also..

Not sure how often to do this but run the set under Max load every now and then..

It is called a load test..

In the air force , I took care of engine and turbine gen sets plus other equipment.

On the gen sets old md-3's we had to take them to a load bank and load them up to max spec's every so often to blow the soot out of them for so long.
The ones that would not load up to spec's got hauled in and sparkplugs and a tune up was given.

6 cylinder continental , horizontal opposed 400+ cubic inch
burnt ave gas.

Just a thought..

Load them up to max every now and then, you will be suprised at the crap that will come out of the exhaust.

Carbon.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

you can re magnetise the gen heads with either a dc pulse/plugging a cordless drill in and manually spinning it or even through a mains circuit

http://www.endtimesreport.com/dead_gen.html

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I do tend to put Sta-Bil in all the gas cans I have around.
----
I was just reading through the Toro owners manual, and they even say to do the oil-in-park-plug thing for winter storage.

I don't remember that with the last mower I bought (a very-cheap mower/Techumseh engine, bought nine+ years ago). And I don't recall seeing it in the generator owners manual, but mebbe I will look again.

Interesting that the generators can go "dead" from non-use.
I've never heard of it, but never used any much.......

[edit]
For those of you who have seen this (loss of magnetism) happen to small portable generators, how long did it take to happen?

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Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Pretty much what the manufacturer told me, but alas, cpr was too late for my little genset. Later found that the stator windings were burned, not sure if it was due to the CPR attempts, did not notice prior to attempting to re-energize the windings.

8 months was the approx time frame.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

The generator has the spark plug in a tight spot, it'd be tough to just change the spark plug much less pour oil into the open hole....

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As I was tying this it occurred to me that both the generator and mower have the fuel cap for the fuel-preserver cartridges (and by coincidence, both are Briggs & Stratton engines, so I guess that makes sense....). The generator came with one cartridge that I put in there, but the mower did not.
,,,,,,
I figured maybe I should get some more, I had not bought any more yet. But now that I'm looking, they seem kind of expen$ive....
...$10 for 2 little capfuls!!! :111:

(those things are each about as big as an old-fashioned screw-in household fuse)

.....If you don't know what I'm talking about, these cartridge things fit into special Briggs & Stratton gas caps that have a plastic ring in the inside center. The white end snaps into the cap, with the yellow end facing down, and you peel off a foil seal, and it drips fuel preserver into the gas tank for "up to six months"....

I think I got a 32-ounce bottle of Sta-Bil for around $15 at Wal-mart.

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Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

THANKS for this info - I had never heard about gensets puking out from non-use. Interesting!

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

The smallest portable diesels I have found are on the generatorjoe site-
http://www.generatorjoe.net/subcat.asp?0=541

You can get a Listeroid engine and build a generator yourself.
If you don't want to have to build anything, then there are some RV generators that come as "assembled" and have diesels available--Onan is one.

Neither of these is very portable however (unless you mount them on a full-size trailer maybe) A Listeroid engine alone weights 600-800 lbs, and the RV generators are 300 lbs+.

------

Lastly--if you really, really wanted a fairly small/portable diesel gen, you could get a Hatz engine and hook it to a suitable gen head yourself.
http://www2.northerntool.com/engines/hatz-diesel.htm

Note that the Hatz weighs around twice what a similar-power gas engine would, and costs six to eight times as much to purchase.
...
Also the Hatz 4.5 is not really any smaller than the 2.7kW Yanmar at GeneratorJoe. Figuring ~700w/hp, the 4.5hp Hatz would put out right around 3000 watts.

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Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Those gen joe sets are really expensive.

I picked up this chicom diesel for 999 on sale from overstock INCLUDING shipping (I am sure they lost money)

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...0138_200360138

This is a much better unit, with an excellent hatz diesel engine http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...2973_200322973

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

That is really cheap. considering the cheapest engines they sell are up around $1800.

The Hatz are supposed to be really good engines, but at those prices I may never know first-hand.

Also it's interesting to note the shipping weights of these things: the Chicom diesel gen is 282 lbs, and the Hatz one is 320 lbs. IMO when you approach 300 lbs you're leaving "portable" territory.

The 5500w gas gen I have weighs about 155 lbs and that's about the most I'd want to lift at once. I can lift it in and out of a SUV/pickup truck all by myself, but I have to really want to do it.....

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Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

LIke I said, I saw the same one on overstock for 999 with $1 shipping and took quick advantage. Should have bought 2. They have since stopped doing that.

Keep in mind these are chinese copies of yanmar engines. The parts are KIND OF interchangeable.


And yes, the genset rolls SOMEWHAT, and is best moved with my little front end loader and some chains

They should change the name from portable to movable.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

As far as gas gensets go I tend to the "less is more" group. Bought my genset new in 1995 if FL. Started it up and made sure all my cords/plugs worked properly and loadtested unit. Drained fuel/changed oil and put fogging oil in the cylinder. It sat in my garage(untested and unused) until 2004 hurricanes. Started it up and ran it for 30 days. After that drained gas/changed oil and put fogging oil in cylinder. Put it back in the garage where it still sits. I don't see the need to "test" every 3 months. If it ran when you put it away it will run when you need it(generally).Small gas engines only need fuel, spark, compression, and air to run. Pretty simple stuff.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

That is the way I approached it until Ike. Now, start up very regularly.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I start mine once a month in the off season (I use mine for race season at the track also) let it heat up and put a load on it for a while.

It is happy that way and keeps the battery charged so the wife does not have to pull start it.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

You need a Inverter Generator......Honda ...Yamaha...etc

they are super quiet....and use much less fuel than either Regular gas or Diesel gensets

they are clean power for any sort of electronics

they are at least half the weight per watt produced

Inverter Generators are speed variable generators so the engine speed matches the load .....instead of the engine speed having to be constant to produce the right voltage as in normal gensets

They are more expensive but very very very nice...i have two in different sizes and they both use a small fraction of the fuel of my normal gensets

I have a construction company and have many gensets......and for my personal around the house use etc i use Inverter Generators up to 6500watts then i go to trailer mounted diesels

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

I tend to follow this trend of thinking on gensets...

we do run the carbs dry

and on the electric start models i have installed jumper cable connections to the battery leads so if the batterys are dead they can be jump started from a car to get them running

and on each generator i keep a bag that includes the service manual and a new unused sparkplug..air filter...etc just in case there is a issue

i also dont have to rely on just ONE generator so maybe that is why i dont worry that much to test them every few months

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

Had a gen set that I would run only when I happened to think about it..


That went on for years, and I sat smug and happy thinking I was covered.

About 10-11 years ago we had a ice storm and natch all power was out.

Went to start the set and guess what.....NO GO...

Has a steel tank and my not paying due diligence ,

I got bit in the ass.:thumpdown Rust in the tank....

I relearned a few lessons back then because I knew better but did not pay attention like I should have..

Just thought to throw my story in , so maybe some one else will not have a 3 a.m surprise.

Just saying.

Re: Generator/small engine maintenance
 

There are some complaints online about very high repair costs with the Honda EU1000i. In particular, with the economy-mode circuit board failing.

------

Also regarding that little Honda.....

I also find this generator intriguing (for a smaller one than 5600w)-
The Honeywell HW1000i
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....00i/p2568.html

If you read the specs, it is suspiciously similar to the (twice as expensive) Honda EU1000i.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...elid=EU1000IAN

...Identical weight, nearly identical noise figures, similar inverter+economy-mode features, similar engine sizes, similar fuel economy, similar warranties.

.....The honda has slightly lower power outputs: Honda 120V output is 15 amps compared to the Honeywell's 20 amps, and Honda's 12vDC output is 8 amps compared to the Honeywell's 12 amps.

(Hmmm,,,, identical internals, but the Honda is under-rated ~20% for reliability, do you think???... This goes right back to what I say about never using a cheap generator at more than 75% or so of its full rated output... you get better engine fuel economy the more you load the engine, but your risk of generator-head failure goes up as well)

They are not identical externally, but I would pay $20 just to see what the insides of both these units look like side-by-side.

The Hondas have an established reputation, but the Honeywells are fairly new and there is no track record for them.

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